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Position Marketing Lead Location Chennai, Tamil Nadu, India Employment Type Full Time Job Description ●Develop strategies and tactics to get the word out about our company and drive qualified traffic to our front door ●Deploy successful marketing campaigns and own their implementation from ideation to execution ●Experiment with a variety of organic and paid acquisition channels like content creation, content curation, pay per click campaigns, event management, publicity, social media, lead generation campaigns, copywriting, performance analysis ●Produce valuable and engaging content for our website and blog that attracts and converts our target groups ●Build strategic relationships and partner with key industry players, agencies and vendors ●Prepare and monitor the marketing budget on a quarterly and annual basis and allocate funds wisely ●Oversee and approve marketing material, from website banners to hard copy brochures and case studies ●Measure and report on the performance of marketing campaigns, gain insight and assess against goals ●Analyze consumer behavior and adjust email and advertising campaigns accordingly Objectives of this Role We’re looking for a hands-on marketing lead to join our rapidly growing team. This is a unique opportunity to join the team as our first marketing hire and work directly with the founder to craft our marketing vision. You will be a willing team player, demonstrate excellent communication skills, and always be thinking of the next idea. You will understand that you are the custodian of the brand and will have a firm grasp on modern technology and various marketing platforms Skills and Qualifications ●Demonstrable experience in marketing together with the potential and attitude required to learn ●Proven experience of minimum of 1.5 years in identifying target audiences and in creatively devising and leading across channels marketing campaigns that engage, educate and motivate ●Solid knowledge of website analytics tools ●Experience in setting up and optimizing Google Adwords campaigns ●Numerically literate, comfortable working with numbers, making sense of metrics and processing figures with spreadsheets ●A sense of aesthetics and a love for great copy and witty communication ●Up-to-date with the latest trends and best practices in online marketing and measurement ●MA/MSc/MBA degree in Marketing or related field. If interested, Email your resume with LinkedIn profile to apply@ascendo.ai

The Voice of the Customer in Discovering Markets Developing Products | Transcription Previous Next Kay - The Experience, dialogue, and experience dialogue. We pick a Hot Topic that doesn't have a straightforward answer. They bring in speakers. Will be there to see that but approached it in very different ways. This is a space for healthy. Disagreements and discussions. But in a very respectful way, just by the nature of how we have conceived this, you'll see the passionate voice of opinions and between Martina and me, that would never be an issue. Friends having a dialogue. I'm looking forward to this conversation and thereby interrupting each other and finishing each other's at sentences the end of the dialogue. We want our audience to leave valuable, insights and approaches that you can take to the workplace. And we do want to continue the discoverers in our social media channels, introduction to the topic, we are going to be talking about wise in the customer and how Impacts into product growth and developing markets with that. I would love to introduce my Martina she is the famous opera of loved and how to rethink the marketing of tech products. He has also helped hundreds of companies navigate through product marketing and go to market strategy. And I've had some amazing discussions with her. When we started that often do also she's a partner lecturer advisor and a board member I am interested in going through, not just Martinez's background, but also looking at what she brings in Seminole products. His experience bringing out some inner products into the market, including her background from Microsoft, and Netscape, but also house Founders and can enable customer centricity in terms of growth. Martina welcome. Martina - Thank you so much for this. Kay - It's a pleasure. I enjoyed the book and loved I know you. It was primarily written for product management, but as the founder is that, you know, you end up doing a lot of product and you're listening to customers all the time and you start with this whole thing about is their customer curiosity and it makes me wonder that. He comes in from multiple angles and rights in the beginning. Is there a market afterward? Is their customer curious about resolving problems? Is their customer curiosity in asking for more features, is a customer curiosity and buying new modules, all of that. So could you talk a little bit about customer curiosity? Martina - Yes. Well, I think customer curiosity and helping people understand how you translate that into One of the biggest challenges for any founder, as well as for anyone that's in the product. And we talked about this a lot in the product world. You can't ask your customer to tell you what to do. You must infer from the sharing of their experience, or the observation of the experience, how your product might be able to better solve their problem and where you can add value, that is disproportionate to the work you're asking them to do and using your product. So I think it's really important for people to not be looking at customers, to tell them what they want and need. But you infer how they can better solve problems on behalf of customers because anyone that's a Founder on the product side knows. Oh, I know what's possible with technology. Let me solve this for you. I think I can find a better way and not just look to the customer to tell you what to do. Kay - Yeah. So you're bringing up the standard to be like stool which is you hear from the customer what they want. And you have the vision that you have for the product. And the third thing is what everybody in the team wants to build, which is because it's so cool, right? So, trying to find a balance across all three. If you could address customer curiosity, I have to say the product is in a state where, you know, the feature is out, people love it. People are using it, and then you're kind of debating, is it? Now is this company. Being the go-to-market is product LED growth customer glad growth. What is this, how would you differentiate the different growth cycles, and how does customer curiosity fit in those? Martina - So I am a huge advocate of using the customer Discovery process as you're building to uncover what are the potential channels for going to market. And I think for early stage Founders I think it's very different at different stages. I think in the early stages you don't know the answer and you have to run a lot of go-to-market experience. It's to understand the difference between how the market will act and behave versus what people will say. I often refer to this, as they say, do Gap and you kind of, you can only try things because and I've seen this in multiple companies that try to start with product LED growth because, of course, that's a very efficient way to grow, but they have to resort to standard top-down Enterprise practices to commercialize. So they'll find a user base but they won't be translating it. To actual paying customers. And so certainly in the SAAS B2B space, we're seeing much more of this trend toward plug, which is more of sales assist, as opposed to the primary vehicle for converting people into customers. So you have the product lead user side and then people look at that data to infer where should our high Target sales accounts be based on the usage behavior and that's used in the product. As a tool to figure out what our sales strategy might be. And so that's something that we're seeing much more on the rise on the B2B SAS side especially also for more mature. Companies that might have a more established model where they might have an established sales team or they might have started the other way being purely page. That hybrid model is something that we're seeing a lot of people, consider and move toward Kay - I know in your podcast you did give some examples of those and we've had to talk when we were talking to you, you had a few examples. I would love to hear one of the examples now. Martina - So my day job is I'm a partner at Costa, Noah Ventures. And we work with a lot of early-stage startups and one of our startups as an example is a startup called the past base and so they have something that people can immediately use and based on that the sales team, then does calls and follow up saying, hey, Hey, we noticed that you were getting some use out of this. Are there any questions that we can answer so it's a He'll sales process but they can land anyone that they reach out to typically very quickly within a week or two and there is another company that I just talked to you about yesterday? Not in our portfolio. They have a product Allegro strategy where they get 200 new logos. And essentially, they have that product out there. They have a sales force, just follow up via phone or email and they're usually typically able to close inside of a week. So, these are examples of how that shows up in various models in different types of companies. One is a web three company, and another is a data company. So the models exist in all different categories, Kay - Yeah. So when you look at the product data in itself, you know, from a customer's support customer success standpoint. We look at it as the wise of the customer, right? So that voice of the customer comes in in multiple forms in a product, LED Growth Company. And what are the Avenues that have worked best from your experience for looking at that? Customer data. I mean, talking about install base data, not just Market data alone, right both. Martina - Yeah. And I think that I'm a big Advocate and, you know, I talked about this earlier about the fact that we have quantitative data, which the world has given us, unbelievable amounts of, but the qualitative data matters just as much to and one story that I think I might have shared with. You were one of the workers, their customer's success team kept hearing in there. Conversation. So this is not something that was being captured in product data because the future didn't exist neatly. These SEC Financial professionals who are sitting in front of spreadsheets that they were getting from all across the company, have to compare and contrast data. So, for them being able to use these products across multiple screens, Mattered a lot and their day-to-day productivity. This is not something that would have shown up inside of product data, but their customer success team was heard in their conversations. You know, it would be helpful if we could have multi screen support and so, the customer success team was going to the product team saying, hey, you know, what we keep hearing is that customers need multiscreen support and the product team looking at the product data and doing all of their customers. Recovery work felt that other priorities were much more important. Hey, we have all these jobs to be done and these really important Integrations that need to be done. And so for them, it felt less urgent or important than other things they have prioritized. But to the customer success teams, great credit they said, no, we have to represent that voice of the customer. This is the number one thing we hear. We need to do this. So, the product team said, okay, we'll put in the next major release and, of course. And that next major Release the number one most talked about thing was the multiscreen support. So, that's a great example of everybody's doing their job, but it's important when the product team makes decisions to think about the different ways in which you're receiving that customer insight and to not only rely on the quantitative or just with the product, the team itself has discovered. But to listen to the front lines, customer success, team sales teams where they have to live with the customer every day and hear what they're saying and factor that into how they make decisions on prioritizing. Kay - Yeah, I'm putting some even in the Ascendo, do we enable agents and, and customers to resolve the issue faster, so they'll be called individual trees? But then, what we did is we ended up saying, why do we have to resolve one issue at a time? Why can't we do it in bulk and aggregated in arts and automatically categorize the issues so you can see them here? I wanted to solve these kinds of issues and resolve them in bulk. Interestingly customer triaging agents and people loved it from one angle but we didn't anticipate that support leader. Looking at this going like, oh my gosh, that's my product feedback. So that's exactly it. So now I can go to the product teams and say, this is why I need this, and here are all the interactions of people who are asking for it. So that's something we didn't anticipate. It came up just with the data and that inside. So thank you for that story. I think qualitative and quantitative both are very important to read. And it's so funny. Martina - You mention the bulk feature this happens in another company that I work with where they were looking at one particular. Persona, that, that needed to do bulk edit of all these things, I need to be able to take all these ad campaigns and run and basically, do one huge amount of things that one thing Huge amount of campaign. So hundreds of things and bulk edit for them. For that particular Persona was important and so it was a critically important problem to solve and they decided to prioritize it. And what they didn't know. And I think this is the thing that we all as product teams need to be open to sometimes by solving a problem. That's critically important for one audience, you open up a vector where all these other audiences can find Value. And that's what they found. They thought they were solving a problem for this one persona. But actually by having that feature available, suddenly made it more useful daily to all these other personas inside the company. So it's the same scenario that you were describing that will sometimes solve a problem that will accidentally be much more valuable to many other people that we can't anticipate either, because we, you can't, and there's just a certain amount of serendipity. Or that's just kind of nature. The nature of opportunity that gets opened up. So I think we always have to have big Clean ears on and constantly be paying joint attention to the overt signals as well as things that might be less obvious. Kay - Yeah, it's a good time to introduce a question from Ben who's asking, you know, they give you're bringing up the exact point where a lot of CFOs CEOs and so they are focused on the short term and they don't get the discovery from the Focus mindset or not paying attention to it, or not getting tune to it, right? So how to work with such people? Martina - I think the really important thing is to connect your processes and your data to the business objectives because everyone in the suite is being held accountable for their business results. How are you growing the business? And what does that look like? And how does anything you're investing in translate into the business? All of us are expecting this company to build. Toward. So I think that's the most important thing to show a connection to, as it relates to customer Discovery, that's where you need to show it to us, creating more value and coming up with better products. Here's what we're able to discover or do differently as a result of us having these customer Discovery processes. So you want to draw that direct correlation. For example, you might have put 20 different solutions out and Discovery and narrowed it down to two that are far more useful. Awful, you want to talk about all the things you threw away, and not just the two you pursued, because people won't understand. Oh wow, we considered a whole lot of other stuff and these two were the best by far for these reasons in service of this business objective, that makes a whole lot of sense. So you, not everybody in the suite, understands all of the things that product teams are doing and so drawing that connection and helping them, understand how that work translates into `` Is what's important? Kay - Yeah. You're bringing up a point where that listening has to be some sort that requests back from the customer-facing teams back to. The board has to substantiate that with data and insights. So these are the types of customers. And the other thing that I heard you say and I would love to elaborate you to elaborate on it, which is a lot of times that ends up being Either the squeaky customers. You know. Loud ones are the most Revenue generating ones that are being listened to. But what you are saying makes a lot of sense when it is for the entire larger install base, looking at the larger install base, everything from trials to the highest revenue, and then looking at that insight as a whole is that correct? Martina. Martina - Yeah. And I think you want to look again at that from the business perspective which is not just where we are today. A, but where do we need to go? Where do we need to grow? What is strategically important for us to capture and that helps you make decisions. So I was working with a company just last week, where we were doing, we looked at the company through the lens of the competition, and the competitive market situation. And what you prioritize, when you look at the companies through that lens, versus if you just look at it Bottoms Up from here, our biggest customers. Here's what they're asking for, you'll do different things and because of there, those are different battlefronts and some of them are defensive like the existing install base and you Kristin customers, that's defensive, looking at it from the market vantage point is offensive, where do we need to go? What do we need to make sure we're growing toward, and that will be less obvious stuff? But when you are considering everything you need to look at it through that lens, let's make sure we're investing in both and not one at the expense of the other. I have told you. An example, when I was at Netscape where we were putting products out fast and furious and quality wasn't what it should be for Enterprises. And so the number one complaint across the board everywhere was like, you guys need work on quality, like, stop making features to fix everything because two watches are janky and so we listened to everything that they were saying and this major release became Fix everything that's broken for customers and we were going fix everything. And so took a lot longer than everyone's expecting because things that need to be Rewritten platform, blah, blah, blah, all that stuff to probably six months longer than it needed to. And there was no innovation and in that period, our number one competitor was innovating. So we solve all of our customer's problems but we didn't innovate and that, absolutely, but us in the market, and it was the beginning of us not being seen as So that was a huge lesson learned where you can't just tend to the squeaky Wheels, the problems that you have today. You also simultaneously have to be looking toward where we need to drive the market. And what's important? So make decisions using both those as a lens. Kay - Yeah, what you're bringing up is, do we not doing something and losing the growth? I have an example of doing something wrong and losing growth. So, we were actually at son, we were building a product very similar to news and that particular product. We wanted to get it out to the market. As soon as possible. We were told, no, we have to get this many million users, you know, we have to get the performance scalability to and the that, because that's some culture, right? So we think big in the, but we haven't gotten the partic to the market. There hasn't been a single user, but we were working and we ended up having to spend six months before which I had to put. You know, go back and say, hey, the last six months, now be better Go to the market, we will face this problem as it comes, right? When we get that millions of users will come, but we don't have tens of users yet. So it's one of those things they're not doing that has to be in tune with the market, which is what you're saying. I think this is a great thing in your book. Love that there are four different ways in which you are connecting the insights. So what you talked about connecting the market and the customer Insight seems very close to the Ambassador. You're talking about the Ambassador, the strategist, the Storyteller, and the Evangelist. I'm trying to figure out if I should go. One by one, we should compare and contrast all of them. What would be the best for you? Martina - Well, maybe we give it over to you but your point. Okay, so I talked about the four fundamentals of product marketing, and I think at it, A meta level. It's important to understand that product marketing, whether it's your title or not, is simply connecting. How does your product get to Market through a series of strategic marketing activities that move toward your business goals? So, it's not just a title, or a person doing the job. It's a function that must be done by a company. So, it doesn't really matter where it lives or who owns it. The work must be done and so I try to reduce them., just the four fundamentals. So, people understood this is the work that must be done and The fundamental one to your point was the Ambassador, which is connecting customer Market insights, and that's everything that you. And I was just talking about and that can come from anywhere. If you hold the title of product marketer, it is your job to make sure that all of that market Frontline Market signal gets reflected by the product team as well as that market Insight of okay, what was our competition doing? And what does that mean? to do or respond to some of it might be purely a marketing response. Some might be product responses, but that's a slip. Someone who sits in the role would adjudicate, but all that work is going to be done as a collective effort. Number two is the strategist which is directing the products, and going to market. And that's looking at it through that more strategic lens, that we are discussing, which is okay. How much of our effort needs to be around tending to our existing Market or growing into new ones? And what does that mean? What channels should we Be more plug product leg growth focused versus top down? Or is this a place where our existing channels work, just fine, or do we need new Partnerships? So that's thinking about that from that more strategic vantage point and then all the different helping to guide, all the people on the marketing. Team Number three is the Storyteller, and that's shaping the perception of the product in the market. So it's not just storytelling and that's all the messaging and positioning work. And then Number four is the Evangelist and The key here is that you're enabling others to evangelize about your product. It's not just that you are the one that's doing the talking about your product. And I think that's a big leap and distinction between what I'd say, more modern approaches are versus when you and I were first coming up in the market which is like hey you have a product, you get to talk about it. Now there are five and a half million apps. There are tens of thousands of Solutions across three or four categories. So we're all bombarded. You don't just get to talk about yourself. Is it? Everybody on the team and I. Everybody is confused. No one is cross-pollinating us. Yeah, it's so confusing. So people won't listen to people. They trust, which is not us. Yeah, it's a colleague, it's something on social media. It's something in the Reddit forum and so, how do you enable others to be your evangelist? Kay - Yeah. Let's put this to the fullest, which is the Cinder and the strategist separately because doctors looking for signals from inside the company back into the product. Then the other two, which are to some extent. The story does Storyteller and the Angeles, which is what goes from inside to the external. People are getting the external people involved. So, on the first two, which is what we are talking about, we have been talking about the Ambassador and the strategist there is There is a question from social media in your experience. When you start creating feedback mechanisms to capture and communicate the knowledge of the customer-facing teams back to the product teams, does that have a positive motivational effect on everyone? So, I mean, in a way you answer this by saying the product marketing has to be tuned to all of this. But here, maybe it's a situation where it's sometimes frustrating. Frustrated. If the engineering folks have dull side effects, then what should we do? Martina - Well, I always look at customer Market insight as a positive thing. Not a negative, it should never be like, oh my gosh, this is distracting from the work that we need to do. This is the work that needs to be done. If your product is not in service of the customers and Market that you are in then who are you doing this for? It's never about technology for Technology's sake. Sometimes things are broken and need to be fixed, but products exist to solve problems for customers. And to be in particular markets that are trying to do things, so it's kind of the game that we're all in. So we have to play. So I would say any customer Market Insight should be positive for teams that are trying to make decisions not that it is not a distraction. Kay - If someone is providing a customer-facing team is providing back feedback back into that engineering. Think somebody is not listening. Please go ahead and share this particular life with the engineering team and say, hey, Martinez is that you have to listen. So, I am giving you installed base feedback. So that should help for this question, the, you know, listening to the customer getting the market insights as great. This is also another question that has come up when the customer talks about problems in the prob product. Usually, they're correct. But when they, Talk about solutions, they are usually incorrect. How much truth is there to the scene? Martina - 100% I should say that the vast majority of cases are two. You will always find that exceptional customer that has this Pitch, Perfect insight, and then you're like, wow, you're amazing, and always try and keep working with that person wherever they are because they have amazing product Insight. That person is rare most of the time just because they don't have As much visibility into the full realm of possibilities on the solution side, they're going to look at it very narrowly. They're going to look at it through the lens of their experience base. And so 100% listen to the problems infer, how might I see this in a way that will achieve what they want and there is some signal in the solutions that they are telling you most of the time that signal, my experience of that signal is Don't over solve or overthink this. I'm telling you a very simple way that I know how to solve the problem, and sometimes it might seem overly simplistic to TiVo. We can do this another way, but there might be some signal. They're saying, don't make this hard, don't add a whole new area. Don't, don't make this a big thing. Can you solve this in a very simple way? So there is some signal, Not necessarily the solution, but the intent behind how they want to feel. Accomplishing the task. I know that seems very subtle but it can be profound in terms of how complex we solve things and how we complexify our Solutions I should say. Kay - Yeah, it's you know a lot of times that I also say this to our teams, right? So in this iterative model that we are in, we can have the luxury of solving it simply and seeing how we are in 10th place to be able to go. Ahead and improve on it. So, there is no reason to come up with something very complex, because gone are the days where we, you know, we are not shipping CDs anymore. Martina - So, so true. And I'm so glad that you said that, like we have the, we live in this fabulous era where we get to iterate quickly. We don't have to ship it. And wait, another year before we can put out another release, we can put something out there. This is again the MVP. How do we test our thesis on whether or not this is Solving the problem of whether or not it has value to the customer week and whether or not it's usable? Let's make sure that we are doing all of that work as we build. Kay - Yeah. Me and my cofounder always talk about the know what? They know, how do they know why you write? So they know what they know, why do they know how? So how come we resolve it? The problem comes last. It's if you focus on the right intern and understand the intent very, very, very well, the solution can be very simple. Whoa, to solve that particular problem. I agree. Again. Yeah, so in terms of how an Ambassador understands, just, how are they different in a product LED Growth Company versus a customer learns? Let's take a step back. Tell us what in your words, how you would differentiate a product lid and a customer liquid company. Martina - I would say. Product LED company is one where they are looking very much at product signals to figure out where to grow and how to do things. And the product is where they manifest how they want to move the market. Whereas a customer lead might be we're listening, we're listening more to than not watching their behaviors in the product. We're listening more to the customer's voice overly, not necessarily Through their product actions. And based on that we're making adaptations that might not just be in the product. So a lot of customers LED places, might adjust the sales process, and customer success process brand. There are many other ways to be in service of customers and build a customer relationship product. Like companies tend to put all of that in the product experience, whereas I'll say customer LED ones are, well, they're all these other ways that we can serve. Connect and provide value to the customer and it's not necessarily just through the product. But product lead companies, they're like, well, if it doesn't live in the product and that value can't be experienced then we're not doing our jobs. Well enough, Kay - Have you seen a combination of the two Martina you have seen a lot of startups and I am yet to see, you know, models are also evolving as we talk, right? So because things are becoming a lot more overlapping Have you seen a combination of the two that has worked? Well for any of the companies? Martina - Well, I would not say that Netflix is a classically a product, wouldn't let in the way that we're talking about now, but I would say they were at as an organization. They are tremendous in leveraging and empowering product teams to do both of these things within their Realms. So, the team that was All the product team that was in charge of the home page, which is just one aspect of the product, which is how do we convert people that come here into trial users and then make sure that we retain them after trial. They had to make decisions on when they signaled. We're about to charge your credit card and one decision led to a huge amount of customer support calls. They wouldn't notify them proactively and it's like, okay, there's 10 million dollars worth of Alls. I'm making that number up, but a huge number of calls would come in where people like, oh, I forgot to not have my credit card charged. Can you just take it off? And so, they solve that problem by proactively notifying people in the product, as part of the product experience, was to proactively notify them that we're about to charge your credit card. So people remembered and that wound up. Costing them 50 million in Revenue. So it was a much more expensive decision but it was the right brand choice to do. Right by the customer, and be honest about what was happening. So they made a choice that wasn't the right the best quote, unquote, Revenue Choice, or business choice, but it was the right customer choice and they discovered all this through, the product forward process, they made the right brand decision and of course, this is many, many years ago, they said it's more important for us to be a trusted brand because of what we're building long term. And of course, Netflix is what it is today. And I think, as an organization, they're spectacular at Mining product signals with customer signals. Kay - Yeah, and interesting. You say that. And, you know, I'm, I'm also seeing this with, in my experience that is to say, with companies of all sizes, I recently talked to a company that's only 15 people but they have 115 thousand users using their product. And what I'm noticing is some very large companies that have, you know, Cloud companies and collaboration companies. I've also talked to where they have traditionally been product LED growth, but at some point evolved into customer LED growth for cross-selling, upselling, training product feedback, you know, the voice of the customer input. So even products like growth companies, respect the size as they get The number of users and the number of customers. And I see them moving towards this customer delayed growth for growing within the same accounts or even identifying markets. And I think that's pretty much what you are alluding to with the onion Netflix example. Correct. Martina - Yeah. And then also just exactly what you are saying, which is there. So many other ways in the modern Arena products can feel very equivalent to customers. And so if you To be a retained customer pick. People want to have a sense of affinity and relationship with the brands that they choose to do business with that stuff, is, impacted by the product, but they're all these other places exactly what you were talking about the sales process, customer supports the brand, what's on social, how the company behaves on social? Do you get hit up constantly with like hey come attend this like when you're already a customer, you get to keep hitting up for more? Tough more marketing. Or do you just feel this connectedness in this love of the product and run the company? Those things are not in the product. Those are marketing decisions, sales decisions, many other organizations, the legal team, and now how big the privacy policy is and how frequently that gets updated and put in the experience. Those are all other departments and that is what I am thinking about. What's the customer's holistic experience of us as a company? It might be primarily through the product, but all these other things have an impact too. Kay - Yeah, that's where, you know, and the more accompanied is tuned to that, the better, they build the trust, which is the underlying thing with the customers and that potential prospects. So because then the foundational value is really, you know that flywheel thing where you have the customer in the middle and literally every other department is operating for the customer and everybody is just tuned in to this customer's insight. And, interestingly, you did bring in legal but it is true. It is true every and it's not just marketing, it's not just customer support, not science, success alone, but it is, you know, and not engineering alone. It's every Department. Martina - Yeah, yeah. And I think that what often happens is in any company of any size, everyone's doing their Silo, and we're building a product, and I'm mitigating risk with this, these privacy policies, or with this compliance. Internal rules are all that matters. But from the customer's perspective, like I don't care what's going on inside your company and I want to be, I want to be treated as a human being and that my business to you has value, even if it's small but everyone wants to feel that way. Kay - Yeah, I recently had a call with a customer support person. It was a very, it was not a good situation and I wasn't unhappy as a customer and I did mention it to the support person. I'm not upset with you, but I'm upset with the company that you're not as a whole or a person thing, you know, the entire company. But just saying, this is my department. This is another department, this department. How many times are you going to transfer me back and forth and back and forth? And say, this is not your problem, it should be every one of your problems, right? So, it's frustrating as a customer to be in that position when people you are talking to From present their entire company and just represent a small portion of it. Martina - Yeah, I think that's if you think about all of your favorite companies that are brands that you go back to, I would bet most of them have you've had these positive customer experiences with where they didn't frustrate you, they didn't kind of three like, oh, that's not my thing. That's someone else that thinks about Airlines. No, no one has a favorite Airline because I was like, well that's not my problem. That's somebody else's. Problem or let me go talk to the manager and it's just so frustrating, and that's not what anybody wants. Kay - Yeah, exactly. So when we talk about an ambassador as a strategist, what kind of data is an ambassador qualitatively pulling in to get those quantitative metrics? And what kind of data is a strategist pulling in for quantitative qualitative and metrics, you can answer them one by one. It says, what? Two questions in one? Martina - Yes. So the Ambassador, so I in my Book. I talk about this woman named Allah who now runs all of the marketing across the entire do be Creative Suite. And when she came to Silicon Valley, she made it her business to know the business better than anyone. And so she went to the product teams and she represented. Well, here's what our market share is relative to others, and here's what I'm seeing in the marketplace, she made sure she brought business data, the market data, the competitive data, and customer data and that she brought it to every conversation. That the product team was having and they didn't realize that they were missing. This very important aspect of how they were making decisions until she came. And she was regularly representing those key important aspects. So that's the kind of data as the Ambassador that someone needs to bring and then they're inverse of that you're the Ambassador out, to the go to market teams of the product information. To make sure that the right product information is making it out to the goto market teams. Marketing teams, sales teams, are we talking about legal teams? Hey, we're about to add these new things that change, anything and when their privacy policies, so that's the Ambassador connecting both ends, not just one way in, and it's both in and out in and out. So, that's the Ambassador aspect of the strategist. That is, okay, now that we know and understand all these things about the product, the market, and the customer, how does that translate into the best possible? Go to the market for the product. And that is primarily Crafting a strategy that directs the goto market aspect out. So that's not bidirectional, it's bidirectional in the sense that you take input from sales and marketing teams but it's providing that guidance. So that they are for all the marketing and sales effort that it's maximally effective and strategic and position in the company. Kay - Yeah. And for that strategist, it's, you know, these days sales or I should say, you know, sales kind of is becoming synonymous to customer success. So I just wanted to call that out. So for teens that do that when Martina talks about sales and marketing, in this case, it applies to the customer success teams, who are looking into, Shifting the gear a little bit, A storyteller shaping how the world's think about the product, and evangelist helps other people to tell stories, I can see that what is, how can a founder can utilize both them? Martina - So shaping how the world thinks about product positioning is positioning your product in the market and how you do that. The Anchor Point to that is how your message and talk about it. But many other things ultimately build to the product positioning. So I do want to make that distinction that positioning isn't a one-time event where you, let's here's the sentence. We are now positioned. It's all of the Distant behaviors, that build toward that market position. So that's a really important thing for Founders to understand as it relates to messaging. I think this is also very different than what most people understand. There is messaging that fundamentally positions you as your land here. This is what we do and it's clear to the maximum number of audiences and then there's campaign based messaging, which is what am I saying, in this particular campaign to capture this audience, and you need to have those things separated so that they are not conflated with one another. And what is very effective for this campaign to data Engineers is separate from this campaign to the suite that are the decision makers you have to message different things and so that's how I you have a messaging hierarchy that lets you have appropriate messages for those different audiences. But the primary message, which most people will call a positioning statement is, how do you most simply Articulate what you do and its value, and the big thing there, I'll say is people think that it's a formula or think that it's coming up with a catchy tagline. But the most important thing is, can you articulate it? So others can understand the value that should be extracted from your product and why it might be either important or different. You can't apply a formulaic approach to get there. You have to discover your way to what is Meaningful to the market. Not just how you want to be talking about it. That's what most Founders. Don't know their actual here. The different ways which I think I won't say which is the one that that is pinging or working. It's discovering your way into like oh I'm understanding how the markets talking about it and I'm intersecting between, but I want to say and we have what they are capable of hearing. Kay - Yeah. Our audience is a lot of customer-facing teams and for the customer-facing teams, the messaging comes in from the product marketing. You also know the messaging. After all, you are so much in tune with the customers because you're talking to the customers on a basis, what is the kind of messaging that you would suggest as a Storyteller or as an evangelist That customer-facing teams can utilize to build better trust. And with relationships, Martina - I think it is super crucial for customer-facing teams and customer success sales. Anyone that deals daily with the customer to bring in what they are hearing to those that are crafting the mothership positioning or messaging. Like there's no product marketer that should feel they could do their job. Well, Without consulting those teens and it's not just you're looking very specifically for what words they use when they're talking about it because we have this tendency to talk using our jargon and in a way that presumes understanding and knowledge on behalf of our customers by listening to it, they say in real situations, either back to a sales rep or back to customer success. Rep, kind of like that work, you've example where it's like, hey, We're looking for multiscreen support. No one's asking us for this but this is how we talk about it and this is what's important to us. You're looking for that type of Market signal to Message that's resonant that lands with and is clear to those customers. And so everyone that works in that function, takes these very specific words that you hear again and again, back to the marketing teams because that's what they need to know. And that will help lift them from the habit of trying to be cute or I'll say jargony or coming up with a value statement that anybody could say. And find things that are explicitly meant to you, your company and your product, and people's experience with you. Kay - Yeah, it's funny. We at Ascendo our messaging, you know, we are a support experience platform, but then our customers relate to us saying, oh my gosh, you are an expert in every one of my agent's back pockets. Whoo, you know, that's the level of messaging that when they say hit it feeds back into the messaging itself. And it's awesome. It's like Physicians carrying his little book in their pockets, right? Martina - So, and I, that is a beautiful example of how you guys articulate. Like, were customer experience platform by the way platform. My least favorite word. And like, everyone was like, oh, for not a platform, we're not talking about what we do. Like 4:30 means nothing to anyone, anyone, anyone, it's meaningless. And if you're relying on it to communicate anything, you do not have Strong messaging of what you said. Your customer said, do you like does brilliantly? Because that was clear, it was, it was clear, a clearly articulated to him to them, the value that you were providing, and why it might be different as opposed to declaring of category or declaring the platform you are and which is what everyone's habits around. Kay - Yeah. And I would love to see your next book be for everybody else around them and seeding or the customer-facing team. Around the messaging. Not just the product Market. Here's Tina. Loud is fantastic. um, I think the other look is also going to be fascinating and would be very interesting. So I enjoyed it. Martina - Thank you. And I did write it with the intention of anyone who isn't a product marketer, would get as much value. So, the feedback that I've been getting that stood most validating is I had someone who is ahead of school read, Loved, and say like, oh, this is making me rethink some of the things that we say about our school. I had a controller in the finest Department, read it and she said, I had no idea what our marketing team was doing. And now, I have strong points of view on how these are just numbers on a spreadsheet. Now, I have a point of view on whether or not we're doing the right stuff and I think we're saying the wrong things. So it's just been delightful to hear people outside of the domains of marketing realize. Oh, I can participate in this because Sometimes because you are not in it, you might see things a little bit more clearly. So it gives people foundational tools. So that anyone even outside of the product marketing practice can learn the tools of the trade. Kay - I'm sure when you rotate, you are thinking about the technology sector and there you are listening to the market and the customer insights, even for the book and you're like, oh my gosh, people who run the school are looking at it, even though you wrote it, it comes in that feedback comes in from very many places, it's amazing. It's there is a fantastic example of customer-facing teams, listening to that market inside. So thank you. You know, one of the things we talk about is looking at the sentiment of every interaction and saying, okay, this person is very happy with the product. Is there a way we can engage them into, you know, a marketing activity? Maybe, you know, coming up with a case study. Anything else right or speaking or whatever it is? So there, is that part of engaging with the others is being an evangelist that you talk about in the book. So how are the customer-facing teams get those insides on who can be a good evangelist and what are the best ways that customer-facing teams can approach and can make that viable? um, What is the right word? How do you translate that into something? Leave. It's Mark, that creates Market momentum where it's something that you can use sweets my good woman time. Yes. Martina - So, one of my favorite examples of this was a company that would listen to customers that were like, that is who this customer is engaged? They would have someone systematically at everyone on the marketing team. This is everyone's job, at least one or two interviews, a week that they would talk to customers that were like, That and do interviews and say, hey I'd love to do a 15minute interview. I've heard that you are an engaged or Innovative customer and we love to hear your stories. So again, it's not like I want to do a case study. I want to hear your story and that they're tiny little ways of phrasing. This just makes it something people want to do as opposed to this extraction that feels like it's a burden and says, like, okay, so tell me what life was like before you were using our product. So then you're capturing a Standing more deeply, the problem surface, as well, as what, what they were trying to do better, what was the straw that broke the camel's back that made you decide to do something about this? So there is your understanding, of what is the activation force and that provides incredible. Insight to all the goto market teams going, oh, oh, this is the thing that finally makes them do it and then they start a search, or the what made them take action because that's what you're always looking to find. And thenI's heard that you're doing particularly Innovative things with our product, what are you now able to do that? You weren't able to do 24 before this helps you articulate and find those areas of difference. And then you spend these up as stories, not as case studies that everyone that is customer-facing can use in their conversations. So you have bullet points of? so the next customer success conversation, I'm having where some say, oh yeah, I've experienced this problem. I know because I read a story where someone articulated that problem by saying, oh, you know what, we have another customer experience, that same problem, and here's how they're using the product. I didn't send you a case study that sounds very structured. And inauthentic I'm sharing a story of someone that feels like they're like you. And so that's what and then people if it's shared it as a story, it's much easier for others to share. I can now share that story with one of my colleagues saying oh, you know it I was just talking, I just Had a conversation this morning and someone who experienced this problem. They solved it this way. Using this product, this very thing happened to me. I was in a product Huddle House where we brought together all of our product leaders. And someone was talking about how they were trying to measure and get the telemetrics inside of their product. And one of the customers said art with one of the customers, and one of our product leaders said we just implemented pain, and it could not have been easier. We just Implement this API, and we get me to see all the data, and we transition away from this. Somebody else in that Forum said, oh yeah, well I'm a big fan of amplitude. I'm you I've been using it for years. We to do all this setup and she's like exactly. We used to do that too, but we didn't have to do any of that customization. It was so much easier he's like yeah well I haven't used pain, do because it didn't do X Y and Z. She's like yeah, we didn't think it did that either but it does. So no one from Pain do was there, but someone was sharing their story. Someone wasn't sharing their experience and there was this can-force dialogue so that every single person that was in that call went away saying, I guess I should be looking at Penn do even if I'm a fan of these other things because somebody else had said we had this great success it was unexpected and it was this very organic dialogue. After all, they had made it super easy for them to have a direct experience with PLG that took away all of the barriers of Entry because they understood what made it hard to have an experience with I know and they solve those problems. So that's an example of it being applied. Kay - Thank you for the Insight. That is two aspects of it, right? One aspect of it is the storytelling part where the actual storytelling can be resonated. Second thing is, you know, connecting and customers and doing best practices. We tend to do it even across Industries and we have found that customers love talking to people, even outside of the industry to see how they solve their problems. And you are giving an example of product-like growth. So that's awesome.Martina I think, you know, this, this is wonderful. We had a very, very, very good discussion concerning quantitative qualitative data products. LED customers like Growth Company and we talked about the four anchors in which anybody who Messaging. Can utilize, do you, would you like to add anything else before we fully wrap up? Martina - All of us, that no matter what city seat, you sit in at an organization, all of us can help our companies are more customer and Market forward and the more companies that That the better it is for every customer and also for the market writ large. So, I would just encourage everyone to get a little more customer Savvy a little more Market Savvy and let's all do a better job of Translating that into how we act and behave towards customers so that they can make better decisions more easily and get more value from our products. Kay - Thank you very much. This is going to be very useful for all our customer-facing teams to understand articulate and respond to customer requests. Thank you very much for your time, Martine. I enjoyed this conversation with Tom professing. Martina - Great, thank you for having me. And for, for driving the conversation and having these stories, hopefully, be told with it to others. Absolutely. Thanks.

AI Companion for Salesforce

Proactive Customer Retention Paper In today's era, Proactive customer service is your only way forward. Research shows traditional service and support methods aren’t getting the job done: - Service costs are up 15%. - Lower-performing agents cost you up to 67% more than top performers. - 86% of customers contact customer service multiple times for the same reason. - Two-thirds of companies now compete on customer service. Today, customer service is a key element to a great customer experience. And customer experience has never been more critical to a company’s success. It’s time to get proactive. Service and support organizations like yours are falling short. Support calls are expensive, call volumes are high, and customer expectations are higher. Service calls are taking too long due to labor shortages and an increasing knowledge gap resulting from experienced workers leaving the workforce. KPIs show your employees are overworked and your customers are dissatisfied. And the C-suite is pressuring you to build a service strategy that will boost the company’s bottom line. If you’re feeling the pressure, you may work for a reactive service organization. And our recent study shows you’re not alone. Focusing on KPIs like call volume and length won’t make a long-term and lasting impact that elevates your service organization as well as your company. But if you rely on your data – information collected from your customers about their issues and their service interactions – you can arm your service and support team with the knowledge they need to respond efficiently and effectively. More importantly, you’ll empower your customers with convenient self-serve options in addition to expedited agent interactions. Be proactive now: Download the report to learn how to build and deploy a data-driven proactive customer service strategy that boosts customer retention and your company’s bottom line. More White Papers Auto categorization 01 Ascendo brings to you one of its most utilized and successful components, Auto Categorization, that is built on state of the art Natural Language Processing techniques and Deep Learning algorithms. AI Based Modern Support Experience 02 Businesses these days receive hundreds and even thousands of customer queries daily. Get started to transform complicated client communications on Slack to smooth, AI assisted interactions 03 Should Companies use Slack or Teams with Their Customers? Escalation Management Guide for proactive support teams 04 The term escalation refers to the action where the issue and the details of a customer interaction is sent higher up the chain, sometimes to the CEO level. View All Scaling Technical Support Smarter: Anjuna Security’s AI-Driven Success Story In the dynamic world of cloud security, delivering cutting-edge solutions isn’t enough—technical support must match the pace of... The Future of AI in Technical Support: Big Ideas for 2025 As we step into 2025, the role of AI in customer support is not just about keeping pace with change; it’s about reshaping the very... Our Blog Here is your go-to guide on what's latest and greatest in delivering superior customer service with the power of artificial intelligence. Catch some invaluable industry insights, and take it forward on your social media channels! Read all Ready to learn more? Contact Us

Agent Flow for Bots

ChatGPT and the future of Customer Support | Transcription Previous Next Kay - Welcome to the experience dialogue. In these interactions. We pick a Hot Topic. That doesn't really have a straightforward answer. We then bring in speakers who have been there and seen this but approached it in very different ways. This is a space for healthy disagreements and discussions but in a respectful way. By the nature, of how we have conceived, this, you will see the passionate voice of opinions. Friends having a dialogue and thereby even interrupting each other or finishing each other's sentences. At the end of each dialogue, we want our audience to leave with valuable insights and approaches that you can try at your workplace and continue the discourse on social media channels. A little bit about Ascendo, it is addressing optimization of support to operations within enterprises so that they can serve their customers better. We enable enterprises to optimize workflow for the agents and provide dashboards for insights on risk, churn analysis, and visibility for senior managers. We are revolutionalizing support ops in the same way DevOps and RevOps have transformed other areas of the business. In the last three years, we have created a G2 category and are ranked #1 in user satisfaction. We are very proud to be loved by our users, and now with the topic ChatGPT and the future of customer support. There is excitement on many Tech and business channels on ChatGPT from OpenAI. It had a lot of adoption within the first five days of its getting released. We've been following OpenAI and GPT 3 for some time. We will discuss the technology, explore its impact on customer support experience space, it's possible limitations and opportunities. So join us and bring in your questions to LinkedIn and Slack channels. Now it is a pleasure to introduce the speaker. He is the co-founder and CTO of Ascendo.AI. Ramki comes in with deep data science, and support background.He ran managed services for Oracle Cloud, created a proactive support platform for NetApp's, multimillion-dollar business and is respected for both his mathematical and business thinking and data science. At Ascendo, his mission is to give meaning to each and every customer interaction and elevate the experience of customers and support agents. Welcome, Ramki. Ramki - Thank you Kay, Glad to be here. Kay - So we can start with the basics Ramki. What is actually ChatGPT? Ramki - You know, I create a slide that kind of shows what ChatGPT could be, you know, and I know that it kind of comes from the comic strip but now let's talk about what ChatGPT is. It's essentially a modern variation of a chatbot. We all know and we've been living with chat bots. Typically the chat bots require you to set up the rules, based on a question that the person might ask it basically has rules that match the contents, and the whole thing happens in a coordinated way. The ChatGPT, difference is that instead of only knowing a little bit of whatever it is, for the website that you are on. Essentially, it's kind of a robot ChatGPT knows, just about everything, and it's more articulate than the average human. So it's kind of comes up with- Hey, I've consumed all the internet and I can provide answers in a conversational way. Let's talk about the technicality of it. It's essentially a language model. It's been trained to interact in a conversational way, it's a sibling model to the instructGPT which was trained to follow an instruction on prompt and provide a detailed response. What I mean by that is, essentially it remembers the thread of your dialogue and using the previous questions and answers to inform, what the next responses could be. The answers are essentially derived from the volume of data that got trained on which is what we had on the Internet. So that's kind of the technical answer for it. You can think of it as it understands the conversation, it consumed all of the internet. It knows the history of your dialogue and it can prompt automatically what the next language sentence could be. Kay - So we've been following ChatGPT, GPT3 for quite some time, right? There was GPT 3, and then now ChatGPT, tell me the difference, please. Ramki - Yeah,I said it's a language model, right? So underneath this nothing but it's using the GPT. Its GPT is the Transformer model. What it means is it's predicting what the next words would be based on what it is seeing. The difference is GPT3 uses 175 billion parameters in whereas to instructGPT which is kind of a 1.3 billion parameters. You can look at it as a hundred times fewer and it's still performing quite well because it's the way it got trained but the same time You know, everybody knows that excitement is great but OpenAPI warns, you know, Hey not all the time, the answer may be correct. So you got to be watchful of what you're seeing and you have to inculcate what it is saying and then see in your own form, whether it makes sense or not. Kay - So there are a lot of people who are new to data science, also here Ramki. and when you talk about Transformer model, we are talking about transforming the learning from one to another or transforming the learning. Correct? Would you like to add any other definition for Transformer? Ramki - Transformer was the kind of technical term essentially it was done. You know, you can kind of look at all the words in One Sweep, and the training time is less. So you are essentially looking at the whole sentence or whole information and taking the mass in one set of tokens and understanding the relationship and then you can kind of predict what the next one would be. So it's a combination of doing the training faster and having fewer parameters and doing it with a lot of content and also making some kind of a model that really reinforces the better behavior of which is correct and guarded better. Kay - So a lot of people have interacted with ChatGPT. Right? It's a, you know, they ask a question and they type a piston in and use the content that gives a result and they give feedback and based on how it's trained. So, in a way, it's kind of Google but not Google also. So can you describe a little bit more? Ramki - It's gone, in a way that, we all go to Google and say, hey, I want to know something. Then we go search and we look at the results and we kind of look at them. What makes sense, and put our thoughts into it and make sense out of it, right? The most notable limitation that you're going to find is that this ChatGPT doesn't have access to the Internet. It's basically loaded with the entire content prior to 2021 data-wise. But it can not look at the current image. In fact, OpenAI tells you that. For example, I want to know when my tree train is going to lead, you cannot get it right but you can pretty much ask anything like, Hey, I want to write a poem. I have an issue with this code, does it make sense. Those types of things one can ask and it can be ask it to fix it. In fact, The very first day was out. One of the teammates asked, hey, I want to write a poem on Ascendo and it kind of actually did a pretty decent job. You know. Kay - I would love to see it at the end, so I was playing around with it, and I will share that also in a bit. So, now the adoption of ChatGPT has been pretty exponential, right? So we see millions of people using it. What Are some of the key differences that you would point out in terms of its output? Ramki - Recently, I was listening to several things, one of them being Steven Marsh. He recently, like, even last week, wrote an opinion column in the New York Times in. You also had a podcast before that with the intelligence quiet, a British podcast media. He's been using similar tech for some time. It's not like we just looked at this and said, yeah, you looked at a different variation not opening another company, and then you looked at them as well. He says it in a very succinct way, he says ChatGPT is a great product that he calls, it can provide a filler response by the filler response means it's not junk, it's not a trivia, it leverages on how people are taught to write essays in a structured manner, you know, we have an opening sentence, kind of things like that. The key point that he's bringing up, is the ChatGPT does not have an intention, it's not like an author, you know, I want to, I have a will I want to want to like what when you write an article you're thinking about the point that you want to convey, right? You want to say this, I want to be able to show that to you. I want you to know that, that's not what you're going to be getting. ChatGPT is a kind of a filler, but it gives you a starting point. One can use the starting point and add the rest of the information that are from your Vantage standpoint. We may be entering an era of doing things differently. Like when we started with the internet, right? When the internet came, then Google came, and then, you know, yeah I remember going to some places, where people essentially say, Hey the computer tells me, this is what this must be the truth, kind of thing, so the open source came all of them, right? So that's the same way here. We are going to be entering a different era where you may be asking, and it gives you some responses that use that as a starting point and go from there. Kay- So some could also say that a GPT3 is the base model and ChatGPT is the bot version or the conversational version of using GPT3. That's already indexed and modeled with internet data. As you mentioned, September 2021. Will that be a correct statement? Ramki- It’s kind of you know, Yes and No. I know the GPT is the base, ChatGPT is not using a bot version of GPT3. It's essentially a smaller model, right? It's created by fine-tuning GPT3. In other words leveraging what GPT does it has to offer a mix of its own bot kind to give this whole intelligent conversational experience.Does this make sense. Kay- Yeah, absolutely. So you know, we know RPA came in, right? So that was the first iteration of introducing AI and I Love to equate it to the autonomous driving experience which will also bring up in a sec. So the RPA came in and it became too much rules-based and very cumbersome to maintain, but RPA was very hard and then that got faded away. Then came chatbots, and I remember at one point, we were counting 318 ChatBot companies and they were the chat versions of the RPA, which again was very rule-based and you had to pretty much codify the question and answers and stuff. And they were very well used within the customer service context. So tell me a little bit more about the Bots in the customer service context. Ramki - You know you're right there. A lot of chatbots. In fact people think when we know when you say have a question they always think bot as one of the things but they have a lot of Baggage, you know, companies have tried with limited success to use them, instead, of humans to handle customer service work. There is potential in these bot where you can kind of alleviate the pressure on answering some mundane questions. But the thing is yesterday was like, you know, recently 1700 American sponsored by a company called Ujet whose technology is handling customer contacts. What they saw was very interesting. 72% of the people found Chatbot to be a waste of time that's a very serious thing. You know, the reason is the biggest challenge people want to have is they don't like the feel of having to work with the robot. When I talk to many of our customers you know when they get you to know, yes there is a potential for doing a lot of self-service self answering but the reality is as soon as you give the option to talk to somebody or something, they just click that, you know, that's what people want. The reason is they don't Like to work in a bot-like environment. Kay-They want a answer. Right? Ramki-Exactly. Kay - You know which is like, I'm having an interaction, why can't it be an answer? Why does it have to be a conversation with a machine-like thing which has to be maintained and codified extensively? and on top of it, I don't even want to go in and extend this process ultimately creating a ticket, right? So Yeah, elaborate. Ramki - If you look at the ChatGPT right, on the other hand. It sounds like a human, you know, and it is of one, what you are saying to form the response. It is not pre-coded with a response. It really thinks off what you're saying and that kinda makes the whole discussion and responses more conversational but doesn't make its responses always right. You know, again OpenAI says that. You have to look at the response and make your conclusion. Kay - You also talk about ChatGPT’s initial, audacious claim. So elaborate a little bit more on that. Ramki - I'm going to share one slide on this. You know, it's an interesting lie that you will get a chuck lot of it.In fact, I went and asked this to ChatGPT. Hey, tell me about the customer support kind of thing. So we ask this and first, you can you know, I just put the same response, what I got right on the slide. It first makes a very audacious claim. Hey, it is not capable of making a mistake so that's a big thing but at the same time, it also did admit that it cannot help with real-world tasks. So it's kind of that is essentially what I want the readers to understand. It will appear that it is not making a mistake, it's giving the answers. But at the same time, you have to know that, you know, it may not have the ability at least as of now, to provide customer support or the real-world task, you know, where's my training? What is the issue? Because in a real customer support scenario, things change more normal things that things are going to be relevant now, and it may not have all the answers. So that's where the big difference is, I would see. Kay - There is a question from Shree. He's asking, what is current state of art in ChatGPT integration with KnowledgeGraph enterprise solutions ? continues saying, particularly around Particularly around Explainability for conversational problem solving , in domains that have high compliance bars ( like healthcare or finance )? Ramki - You know you can't just Wing, you know if you look at it right when you and I are having a conversation we're going to use of the knowledge that we have gained and we are going to just tell you and there is no fact-checking. So we got to be conscious of that. So just because you get a response and in fact, the response may look somewhat legit and it doesn't mean that it is right? Especially when there is a complaint kind of a thing as a mod so I would strongly suggest it. In fact, you know about the openAI will in fact concur with this type of thing. You got to, you know, it's giving the answers based on what it had been trained on, but fit is for Real World past and something that you need to do, contact the customers and do contact that particular customer support and get the answers. It's, they're saying, so that's what ChatGPT itself with that, you know it is audacious to say, it will never make a mistake, but it doesn't make a mistake and it also tells you that you have to be at your own. Kay - Yeah, and it's good that the model actually understands its own limitations and claims its limitations, and it's by us too since, you know, I'm just bringing it up because there is the explainability component of it. So absolutely. So, let's now that we talked about Transformer models, we talked about GPT3 and ChatGPT. Tell a little bit about how Ascendo works. Ramki - You know, if you look at Ascendo.AI. At the core it also uses the Transformal model. Well, we essentially developed our model based on the domain expertise that we have, you know, many of our key people come from there, come from customer support or customer service background. So that's a great value because we know how the support model Works. How large companies' technical support organizations should handle even smaller ones as well. And we know the nuances of finding the answer for a customer question and issue. Sometimes, be a simple and elaborately explained to me what it is and what the product test is. Sometimes it is actually an issue. I'm facing, I'm doing this, and I'm facing an issue. What should I do? How can you help me? kind of thing. Our Transformer model essentially looks at the knowledge and the other data point that we have within the company that we are that we have implementing or we are basically providing Ascendo service on top and it's looking at all the content within the company and to evolve, what should be the answer. For example, there may be a new issue blowing, Right? it probably never happened before, but it's coming. There may be new knowledge that got updated. You know, somebody found an answer and the dots or maybe there was a bug that came in, and then somebody answer it, it became a knowledge, all these things are happening as things go by, then maybe these things in some similarity, there are some similarities with ChatGPT because we also use as kind of human feedback to make sure that we can constantly evolve and self-correct self learn, right? That part of it is very similar. We are using actual data and we are also evolving and with actual factual data, not from the entire internet to provide an answer. Kay - Very specific to the Enterprise, very specific to the product, Etc. So the analogy is very similar to the autonomous engine auto driving. Right? So we start with giving the Triggers on predictive actions, escalations impact, risk intended context, and all of that. Then our agents and leaders still make the decision on what they use and when they use it. So in a way, we automate the data aggregation, aspect of humans, maybe I would, I always equate it to what an engineering calculator did for the basic calculations but on an advanced scale so it does help remove the biased. It enhances collaboration, even when people went, whether people are together or remote and it also helps with faster problem-solving. So essentially, we are automating support ops, like, whatever dev-ops and rev-ops are doing. Back to chat GPT.So, the challenges explain a few challenges of ChatGPT, like the media. I kind of alluded to writing. Ramki - One of the biggest issues that we are all going to face. It happened even with the internet, right? When you see something, you may actually believe it. The way we probably get unknowingly got caught by the early days of the Internet, just because something is said multiple times, it appears opinions may drive the truth. The fact-checking asked to be will be on the Forefront. Unknowingly, someone keeps repeating the same thing or, you know, gets Amplified through multiple things. And then information comes on top. People may think that is the truth and it may, you know, actual truth will be hidden, right? That's where we have to be watchful. We have to be careful how these things happen just because it says something so nice and it, you know, feels correct and eloquent. It should not be that, it's always right. And we have to remember but it's a nice way of saying things but it is not the truth to have to do, a fact check. Kay - Yeah, a model is as good as what we feed it in and ChatGPT is fed with internet data and there is a lot of information that needs fact checking whether it is from humans or a machine and it's we at Ascendo we always talk about metrics versus data? Data helps say the story. So from a story standpoint aggregating all of this customer data and bringing out an ability to say, a story is something that models as Ascendo does, But the actual story is told by humans and not by the data itself. So that's where there is this human connection. So Thank you. I think this has been helpful So I was actually asking to ChatGPT to write about holidays in 2022 and it did respond by saying that the day it has stayed only up till September 2021 cannot write about 2022. But you did talk about the poem, it wrote about Ascendo AI, and want to share it, before we end? Ramki - Let me..you know, it's kind of interesting, you know, we basically talked asked it Hey tell me about Ascendo.AI. Like Steven would say it did a pretty decent job, you know, kind of filler information, you can call it. Now you can take it and you can now use this and can just change it the way we want to convey it or whatnot, but here it is, you know, it did a great job. I would say, Kay - I like that so let people read it while we're stopping the Livestream. Thank you very much for tuning in and we want to continue the conversation here on the LinkedIn and slack channel. So, feel free to post your questions and comments. What else can we do to help continue this engagement? Ramki - Thanks. Absolutely.

Strategies to Manage Difficult Situations with Key Customers | Transcription Previous Next Kay - Is to connect more than ever before. But how do we Define our key customers? Is it simply someone who's bringing in the share of Revenue? Is it someone who is making us more profitable? Is it the customer lifetime value? The level of partnership? We are having the product feedback. We are getting the referrals. They are making. Maybe all of the above at some point, every company leader looks at their best. And then they'd see, okay, how bad it would be to lose one of these accounts. And how do we protect these relationships with these customers with that, that we have experts and we have experts from lean data Is to connect and more than ever before? But how do we Define our key customers? Is it simply someone who's bringing in the share of revenue? Is it someone who is making us more profitable? Is it the customer lifetime value? The level of partnership? We are having the product feedback. We are getting the referrals. They are making. Maybe all of the above at some point, every company leader looks at their best. And then they'd see, okay, how bad it would be to lose one of these accounts. And how do we protect these relationships with these customers with that, that we have experts and we have experts from lean data today? And what struck me first is the diversity of experience from this team here. We have Alex who directs the lean Data customer support team and he runs the daily operations. And he has scaled the team from One person to multiple people and is still the scaling and he runs the technical support organization and US escalation. So it's wonderful to have you here today, Alex. Thank you for being excited to be here. Next is Ravi, Ravi is running the CX and the customer success and the technical support teams and Robyn comes in from a very strong operations background. It has 25 years of experience from nineteen years of typical and growing the customer base there and looking into Revenue as part of the support. So have revealed, here. Thank you. Glad to be here. Rachel is the chief customer support, its Chief, customer officer of lean data. She is very passionate to lead customer and employee experience and substantiate. That with big data and data at the edge. What fascinates me? Talking to Rachel, was her experience with clients? All across B2B, B2C staple Goods, retail, Tech, fashion, and Finance. So that was pretty interesting. Rachel and her measures have extreme success in how they deliver. Great customer experiences. And importantly, net revenue retention. Like, any other SAAS company? Rachel. It's Careful to have you today. Rachel Thanks for having me. Great to be here. Okay? Kay so it would be great to find out here from all three of you, why are we here? And how you say and your experience and how it matters to these strategic customers and having the most difficult scenarios are handling these most difficult scenarios with strategic customers. Rachel. Let's start. You. Rachel - Sure. No, I think just so the audience knows my role in perspective. I do lead the entire post-sale team at lean data which includes our support and services organizations. And I think, as we think about how we set up to manage these difficult situations, we try to anticipate what are going to be the challenges. You might see key customers. I think we have to Set up and work to back off. What kind of experience? We're going to need to deliver. And what are going to be the areas, in which we anticipate that they're going to, you know, come to us? Did we lose you? Okay. Sorry. Oh, there you are. Kay - I was told that I have to stop my camera to start live streaming. So I'm trying to figure out what it is. So please continue. Okay. Rachel: No, sorry about that. I thought maybe we dropped. , yeah, so I think just from I see it's you know, how do Set up and sort of anticipate ahead of time. What we're gonna need in terms of those situations. And I think just from a CCO perspective. There are two things that we think about sort of fundamentally. One is when we think of the customers, we think about them in a multifaceted way. As you said in your introduction it is, of course, the a, you know, the amount of Revenue to bring in for the cup company we want to protect that Revenue, but there's also the potential Revenue that they have. So, what's the overall customer lifetime value potential? Those customers? So there's always the business side of it. But I think we also think about those key customers from a market segment perspective. And that might be more Behavioral, or more of our, we serve. A, can we meet their needs, right? Are we, how do we think about them, their business or their business model, and do they best represent? You know, the best-fit customer, so I think it's not just dollars, but we're also thinking about how we make sure we're set up to serve the sort of the key Market or ICP that we go after. And you had design experience. And we know from lean data that our software is very flexible in terms of your ability to set it up to meet your business needs. So it's very configurable. We align with the customer's business process and help them set up their business rules. So we have to have a support team that can go in and understands that customer. On text. So I think it's super important to think about, you know, what are you going to do? Who are you serving? And how do you set up your support team to work back from to serve those individuals in our cases Operations Professionals for setting up Automation in their sales force and that Alex and team have to be able to go in and understand what they are trying to do? So, I think as you think about key customers you are also thinking about how we break down and understand how we serve them. So as I'd like to think about the more behavioral and business needs, we meet not just the AR are dollars, that makes sense. K. So Kay, Absolutely it does and I love that you touched upon the market segments because early on and Lily data is also a smaller company. You tend to not have the market segments, very clearly defined, and you end up having people who are on the fringes who join in. They become key. They become key customers, even though they don't fit into some of those. So I think, as we move through this conversation, it will be great to know how the people are the customers, who are on the fringes of the market segments, and how to deal with them. Keep them happy. Even though the core product is growing deeper into a segment. I think that would be wonderful for our SAS audience. Rachel Also is here and I think that's a good point. And I do want to raise, you have to identify, are they Fringe or are they your next step in your Market evolution? Shannon, because it might be, hey, you always attract those early adopters, those innovators. Are you starting to see more of that late majority, who needs a different kind of help? They're not, just that. Hey, I'm a DIY. I just need a little bit of help from the support team, not just technical issues, but just support and questions, right? To. Hey, are we starting to see more of them with me? Do it for me, kind of audience. And is that an indicator that we're starting to grow the company? So I think that's a really good point. Okay, but it can be an indicator, not a fringe, but maybe e of a new market opportunity opening up as we start to, Kay Yeah. So, how rubbish, in this particular case, concerning bringing in these market segments are going deeper into a few market segments. How do you manage the product feedback that comes in from the Cs team and the customer success team? Ravi- So, what we do is we are closely tied with our engineering team. We have to work. I mean, let me take a step back. B2B software support has evolved over the last course of years. Right? So you have to be very closely working with your Product and Engineering teams as well as within the support. I mean those days are gone where you have cured support where you have level 1, level 2 level 3. mean you have to respond very quickly and make sure that we're listening to customers and taking their feedback and pushing it into our product team so that they can prioritize. In terms of how they do road maps, which is what we do. So when a customer logs a ticket, if it happens to be, we hear that there are new features. New enhancements. We're constantly working with our product team, meeting with them regularly, feeding them information, from what we're hearing from customers to how to make that into the product roadmap. We're constantly working on that. So it's a tight connection between product support and Engineering. It's not you know, we have to kind of move away from the fact that support is labeled as a help desk. We are closely tied with the products that book the product team. And that's how we make sure that the feedback from customers is hurt back into the product and, you know, hopefully, we can influence it to make it into the roadmap. I mean, the product is always challenged by what to put on a road map. So I just want to recognize that that's always a challenge. But at the same time, you know, they look at us at this point as being the voice of customers. So that's basically how we use it. Kay, It's the voice of the customer. Angle too, this is very interesting and I want to tie this into escalations here, Alex. So for most SAAS companies, the product is evolving so fast and in a growing SAS fast, company. The product is evolving so what you're touching upon is one of the things we do very, very well. As those bring out the voice of the customer to be able to interface with the product team. But like you said, there are times you find you do everything you even though, Becomes one of the most, you know, you look at the top two or three and you look into what is the next evolution of the product and how it fits in and do it. So there are going to be escalations that there is a customer. Who's going to icky customers who may want, who may want a particular feature or particular thing within the product and it gets escalated and you know that we cannot satisfy it. How would you deal with this situation? Alex: Well, I think it's a few things first. You have to take some time to understand the business use case, for why the customer is requesting that feature in that functionality. Once you can best understand what exactly they're trying to accomplish. Even if you can't accommodate it in the immediate future, you can at least get an understanding of what they want to do. And then start to think. Okay. What workarounds do we have available in our product today that we could get the same results? Maybe not through the same medium. So it's a few things. It's understanding the business use case. And then one, if you can accommodate it right away ensuring that the customer has a short-term workaround to get them what they need in the short term, right? And then from there, it becomes communicating internally. As Robbie said, the support team at lean data is very close-knit, with our Dev team in our product team. So depending on what we hear from the customer, if we're not able to Accommodate a certain use case, we file a product feature request. And then we sync up with our Devon product team to discuss the request and get a timeline on if it can be built out or not. And if it can how soon can the customer expect that that's all a multifaceted process that we carry out on a daily, but it all feeds back into our product and Dev team and the importance to make sure that the customer. stands the steps that you're taking to address their request in the short term and the long term. So it's okay if it gets escalated as long as you follow those patterns and keep those thoughts in mind to convey the steps that you're taking and the actions that are going to be done to address Kay - Be honest. Right. Be honest with what they are saying here. This is the timeline. This is what it is here is the reason why we are doing what we are doing, but we want to work with you to give you a short-term, short-term workaround. And So you can continue doing the business while we prioritize this and get this going. It brings a pair. I think it would be great to hear a story from a large Customer because these things escalated so fast, Rachel, can you give us a story and um of how things get escalated so fast, and how that can be dealt with very um um seamlessly, Rachel - so, I have to shout out to our product team and our team overall. I do not. With a lot of escalations, I did not spend a lot of time dealing with great customers. It does not get to me very often. So that's a shout-out to this team here. KAy And actually um I have to face every experience which we discussed. Before um this life. We did discuss the experiences that you're sharing. Does not have to come in for just Lindy Dykstra coming from any of your previous experiences. To preface, uh with that yeah, please continue. Rachel - Yeah, no uh fair. Enough. I think, uh um you know, think that one of them, there's two, two things that we focus on here, which is, let's figure out the speed. Let's get to a speed of response. So really, if we, if a customer expresses an issue, let's uh let's get to them right away with, you know, let them know that we hear them, let them know that we're on it. The second is what is that type of response or accuracy and think Alex and team. Ravi does a great job when we have a customer where we can see that the issue is going to Mentally impact their business, uh making sure that to escalate it more from the perspective to me. So that the client knows that this is getting the top attention of our organization because it's critical to them. As Alex said, he's very good at listening. Is this something that is going to impact their ability to run their go-to-market process, right? We help our clients with one of our use cases is lead management. If your leads aren't getting to the sales team, the sales team isn't selling. That's pretty significant. We don't have the luxury. And let that sit for days. So letting the customer know we're on it, letting them know that it's been escalated to senior leadership is super important for them knowing that we're on it and that we care like, that's, you know, one of the things that I learned Kay, When I worked at Cisco we analyzed our support process and we learned that getting the, you know, the quick response and getting to the right people. So that the customer knows that getting taken care of was more critical to Tension, than the time it took to solve the problem. So that's so critical. So, an example where I will give one from the beginning of covid. When there were certain of our customers that saw a huge influx of leads into their business as a result of covid, right? We had the other extreme work, companies just halted entirely. They came to us saying we have a crisis that we need your help to manage. You know this. This manager is in crisis in the business and can help people get through this and navigate through it. I thought that was a great example of our team needing to Rally as a company and data, it's a team sport support is a team sport. Escalated to me to our senior leadership team to say how do we help evolve and address the needs of this cohort of customers that need us to help manage their business and that was, you know, bringing together. Both the engineering teams and the support team CSM to say how do we understand this new business needs? How do we help them? And then we rallied to make those changes for that cohort of customers within weeks. So that's where you can make it. If it gets escalated to me and the leadership team, we can make some strategic decisions to invest to solve those problems in the short term with those big clients because they're super critical to us. And if we can help them pivot quickly, that might be kind of an outlying use case, but I think that the point has to be taken if you're fundamental, if you're fundamental to that customer and their success, and they need you to address an issue. To move forward. You will gain long-term brand loyalty, if you rally and fix that problem, and ensure you're there with them like that. Trust that transparency, that partnership. And I think we have one of those customers for life because they knew we were there when they needed us. Kay - Yeah. It's not so much of an outlier so to speak, right? It's covid and made things very interesting for a lot of people. So we had a lot of interesting Lee to see. People are spending more time in homes. So we had, we ended up with quite a bit of b2c customers because people who had their support tickets, overflowing they came to us and they were like, I'm desperate. I can't manage our backlog. We are at a point where we can't even respond to them in a timely fashion. So you are right. You bring out the trust in you, bring out the partnership and you put that up front. There is a question that came up on a social media channel regarding this topic. So instead of bringing it to the end. I'm going to bring it in. Bring It Now, how do you identify a broader customer requirement? requirement. Any one of you, Ravi - I can take that. So I think when you do so just to make sure that I'm understanding the correct question correctly. When Bunch, when a lot of customers are reporting the same type of issues. I'm just putting it practically. What do you say? Hey, there's a bigger problem going on. I think that's the intent or the context of this question. And I think it has to do with, you know, we it's just basically monitoring the tickets and kind of, not tickets. It's not wrong, but If we're getting the same kind of request from each customer, right, then there's a broader issue where you know, it's having. So for example, I'll go back to what Rachel was saying. During the covid time. We had a few customers that came back and said, hey, we have a large influx of leads that are coming through. We need your help. She just mentioned that, right? And we had some, boom, customers that came back. What that showed is a basic product enhancement that we needed to make in the product. And so what we did is our CTO went back and adjusted the system so that we can, you know, open up the pipe if you will, and improve the overall throughput. So it allowed us to look at it because there was not only one customer. There were a few boom customers that were coming to us and saying, we need the larger scale. We need to scale our products. We need to make sure that we're able to meet our SLAs. And so we were brought up so kind of coming back to that if we see things like that. It's an again partnering with our product team and making sure our product team is aware that saying, hey, we're hearing all this stuff coming from that all hands on deck and looking at it from a product standpoint and looking at it and saying, okay, we have a broader problem that we can solve by fixing this. That's how we address it. I think it's again. It comes back to a collaboration of engineering and making sure that your engineering team. It's not 10. I think one of the things that we are getting Alex and I are working towards is having a regular meeting with engineers to show them the trends of what we're seeing and supporting. What kind of tickets was I getting? What types of tickets were getting. Why are we getting those tickets? I think proactively doing that will bring up some of these things and we'll help, you know, will help make your products better. I hope I answered that question for you. Kay - Yeah, it definitely will be in a lot of the times that LinkedIn and some of these questions. you don't know the full context behind us, Justin, but it ties back into the voice of the customer and things that we talked about before, right? So, having a continuous dialogue and one of the things that we see our customers do is since we automatically populate, here are the top trends of issues that are happening, pop root causes of issues happening. You substantiate this with data. That's the one that we were talking about Rachel in how you're leading with data. Say you have this many interactions across like an email. And what's happened about everything that is bubbling up to bring out. There are the topics that we need to focus on from a product perspective and here are the root causes which it's happening. Some of it will become bugs. Some of it would enhance some of it. So it goes back to having that pulse of the voice of the customer. Ravi - And I think with B2B if I can just add one more thing. He's with SAS software. We're, it's a boon for us rather than a curse because as a software vendor, we basically can, you know, add more metrics and more logging and things like that. We have a lot more insight into what the customers are doing. Then. You know, I've been on the on-prem side where customers would install and you have zero ideas of what they're doing and no idea at all with SAAS. You're able to put metrics for your point, wood products, like yourselves, and things like that. You can add additional metrics to be able to show if you're seeing commonality and common Trends. So, to your point. Kay - I think now is a good time, you know, to shift from the product to the metric side. So Rachel, if re, you know, for any CCO who wants to lead their entire sales and support revenue operations and support operations teams Based on data. What are the top metrics, you know, we can stop with three tops, but when we can Drill Deep dive down and I'm sure that answer is going to be different at different stages? So, Ravi and Alex, we would love to get that input from you. But Rachel, let's start with you. Rachel - Think at the top. There are three things to look at when we always sort of look at, we do a CSAT survey for our support, and how our customers feel about the experience is super important. We can also look at our g 2 review. Oohs and the fact that we get highlighted for support being a differentiator at lean data. So on, as you know, how does the customer feel about the experience, they feel they're being supported. Then the other is the Practical side of the business. Are we seeing a, you know, can we see a relationship between support issues and retention? So we do, look at churn, we do say it is a result of not dealing with issues or they're other, you know, or is it feature gaps or we wanted or that? Because we want to make sure that these issues aren't resulting. The customer leaving that, we know we're going to have issues. Right? Our software stuff's going to happen. We integrate with a bunch of different platforms. The customer does stuff that's going to happen. But you know, we hope we will throw that as a partnership, so it's really important. I think to make sure that you look at, you know, the key metrics of retention and then the third piece is the employees mean Alex and team. Amazing. There was a point where they had such. We kind of went through a sort of great state of resignation. I think somebody called it the great reshuffling, you know, you'd go up and down in terms of your Staffing or people decide to completely change careers or they moved so poor, you know, Alex was down a couple of headcounts at some point. It's super important. I think to say, hey, can your team have a decent workload, you know, because Alex ends up working around the clock too, you know, so yeah, I think you also just have to look at the metrics. Of making sure that you're taking care of your employees. So just to recap, you sat think you want to tie it and make sure that it's not resulting in ensuing or down cell or you know because that is an indicator of your success. And then looking at the team and their capacity. Kay - Yeah, the CX metrics are all three are evolving, right? So the CX metrics that you talked about CSAT the G2 reviews. Now, people are starting to bring out the Overall sentiment of the customer's customer effort score. How long does it take for them to reach out and get the answers for what they need to get, whether it supports, or our customers' success? Right? So that portion of it, there is plenty of discussion around it. So I would love to focus on the next thing that you talk about, which is the retention part and focusing on the retention and the churn. And, then the employee experience part. So, Ravi, I would love to get your opinion on the retention part, especially around what the preacher talked about. Concerning. If we are measuring churn. I think that's the words. You used Rachel. It's gonna happen, right? So, how, what is the best way to measure churn? And to, you can take it to any level concerning, whether it is going goals that you Our customer's Sexes are training that you used for customer success. Are in terms of measurement, would just like to get your brain DB blonde in Ravi - absolutely sojourn is a very important part, you know, and turn is not always attributed to lack of support necessary. So you have to beat down deep in terms of what's causing your charm, right? There are several things that we turn now is its ease of use the customers don't and are not using it, you know, not using the product are not able to use the product or are experiencing too many difficulties, whether it's installation, customization, whatever it might be, it's just the ease of use the bottom line, right? So there's a lever and several things that you have to look at into the churn to figure out why customers are turning. If you're trying to level too high. It could be. What customers are not adopting. So your onboarding process itself is broken, meaning, you know, from a lean data side. What we're doing is we're making sure that the customer is opening up the box. So to speak and make sure that they are using the product, right? We need to get them to use the product first. And then, basically, it's up to my team with the help of other people. It takes a village. I can tell you that it is to make sure that the customers can achieve the output that they are signed up for, right? So you have to look at the onboarding to say, okay, onboarding is the first part. You look at the saying is the customer using the That's number one metric. The next question is, are they using it? Successfully? Are they able to use them successfully? Meaning? Are they able to achieve what they're doing without? You know, what's the total cost of ownership? If I may use that word, right? mean, in terms of how much time they have to spend on a lean day? One of the feedback we get from lean data is they set it up and forget it. Now, there is another side of it about the problem, we have with that, but that's a different story. Right? But the point is, they don't have to maintain. system too much. It runs. It's easy to maintain a dozen requires heavy lifting from IPS and things like that. So, you know again effort and ease of use are the next pieces, right? And then there are other organizational challenges that people might have that might result in churn, which we have no control over. So I think one of the things that Rachel has looked at, is saying how much is an avoidable and unavoidable chart. So avoidable is what we focus on because that is something we can control. Unavoidable is our organization, things that are beyond our control that are going to cause turns. And this we have no control over. So that's how we measure churn sojourn is a, there's no one metric. I think you have to look at it. You have to slice and dice it in different ways to figure out what's causing that t n to address the problem. If you will Kay - In one of the interesting, you know, so of the three things you mentioned, I have follow on and on all three. So let's wrap that up. So, one of the interesting parts that you mentioned is the And the outcome during the onboarding process, right? So it's freemium. I don't know if it has it, but you're familiar. You've been in the industry longer. There's people who make freemium models and then build on top of the freemi models. So it would be wonderful to understand how the outcome is measured even in a freemium model, right? So is it like, hey, kindly AKA you signed up for the product. What is it that You want to achieve with the product and that's docented and that's followed through or something else. Ravi - Yeah, so we don't have an official premi model necessarily, but you know, just just based on what I have seen. The freemi model is basically making sure that you're in front of the customers, right? Because you can't be a model. So you have to invest a lot of money in it, to make sure that the end goal of the premi model is to convert, right? You want to convert those to a paying customer and Question is, how do we guide the customer? So once the customer downloads the product or starts using the products, what level of help can we give this customer to make sure that they're able to basically use it? And then, you know, you have to kind of nurture them to say. Hey, are you using the product? Look at it, the backend, send them, you know, information about, hey, you're not using this product. This is something we can do. You can potentially do like to wear one too many webinars as well, to kind of onboard, the customer makes sure that they're successful. With it and kind of convert that freemium model. So, that's the extent of what I know about premi model, but it's a very different model because you could have thousands of customers. And so you have to have a onetomany motion to make sure that you are nurturing those customers to get this. I mean, that's the other thing with the freemium model. It's really hard to gauge what they got. Then, why did they start using it? The product is very difficult to do? Kay - Yeah. I'm I'm, I think I should have made it. It's not Outside of Premi, do you how do you measure outcome? Ravi - Yeah, the outcome is basically, you know, they are implemented in production and you know, are they using their licenses? You know, they bought a certain number of licenses, right? And basically out of the gate as soon as they Implement how many licenses are they using already? And what is their plan? And you basically speak with them and kind of say what's your plan? You know, how are you doing this? And are you, are you the right trajectory? So we have adoption metrics that we look at, right? So there's a certain number of adoptions that we look for, like the first year, we want our customers to be at 80% of their licenses, for example, right? Or we want that to be the metric. So, that's how we measure it saying, you know, how are they doing in terms of what they bought from a utilization product usage standpoint? And then you basically have a conversation with the customer and say, okay, are we? Here's where you are, are you rejecting in the right way? So it's just measuring that and Kay - That poison back into the total cost of ownership. So so Rachel, if you could give a scenarios for the avoidable and the unavoidable example, so even in an unavoidable, I can, you know, think about an example where, you know, maybe it was a smaller customer, but the management completely changed and they don't know what the product is about. It's completely unavoidable and so the need wasn't there. Anymore, whatever it may be is because of the growth. So how many strategies on mitigating avoidable was and the unavoidable in Rachel - A great question. And I think we didn't discuss this ahead of time. But you're hitting on something that again as we see this a great reshuffle and going on, that loss of that point of contact has definitely been something that's been on the rise that we have to get, you know, ahead of and, you know, recognizing if somebody new comes in through the Or team. We're going to need to jp on that. Right. We need to get them educated. We need to make sure they understand the why behind their company purchasing and Ravi's actually been working on up leveling our Playbook around, you know, that shift when we get a new stakeholder in. So I think that is absolutely critical and I think something that all SAAS companies kind of struggle with, and we consider that your right to be an unavoidable. We consider there might be product feature gaps that we put into the product category that we say. We should have been on top of this if we did lose customers and I tend to kind of look at it over a course of time, not quarter quarter, but let's look at it over the course of a year. We had a couple of customers leave because we didn't have a certain feature. We would consider that to be maybe something that was unavoidable because we didn't sense the need for that. Yeah, or you know, we hate to lose the competition. We feel like that should be unavoidable quite honestly K like no. No, that's not, that's not great for whatever reason. But You know, I'm sorry. Hmm, me a sec. Kay - So we're doing this. First of all, you're just getting out of covid. I appreciate you so much. Rachel - Yeah, sorry about that. Audience and pretty as I sometimes. I'm still testing positive, but I feel great. I don't know. It's probably going to test positive for another week, but they had. Thanks, you know, I think it's just, it's super important to, you know, to be tracking and figuring out what that looks like for your organization because You know, again, I think it's over time or I kind of look at those patterns and and see what we might call is as unavoidable. I'm pretty harsh actually, in the way that I assess it. I pretty much only consider a merger and acquisition or they're not using Salesforce anymore. He's nodding his head because he knows I'm super harsh like everything else. I expect we're going to be able to keep these customers. But yeah, working back from that, you know, super important. I think, you know, I want to bring up a point. About some of the support. I really think we're at a very interesting time when everything is so digital right. People are remote. Support is really becoming a much more strategic organization. Like I think Alex is feeling it. It's becoming so much of the Hub because when customers that I have a problem, I need help. They come to support the team. It's not just a crisis of technical issues. It's hey, I just, you know, I need help and it's really Only thinking about how you, you know, set up the team to be able to respond whether that's okay. I can see this person needs help. You know what, they're not certified data users. I really need to make sure that we flag them and get them certified because we need to be able to get them up skilled. So I think we're thinking more strategically about how we get customers into the training, the certification, make awareness of the health center and really bring the community together. Or hey, we see you're trying to move to this new go to market model. We have another customer doing it. That's already done, you want to talk to them. So I think really having that strategic mindset and you know, that's I think as we move forward, being able to put that front and center to the support team is something we need to think about because it requires a lot of data and analytics. And I know there's new capabilities out there that can help us to empower the team to put them on, you know, more of like, hey, let me help be. Savannah recommends versus, just troubleshooting and salt. Kay - Yeah. Support has definitely become the center. It was interesting. I was talking to a CFO of a customer and he was saying how gone from the days that it was a cost center. Now. It's like especially in covid. Everybody recognized, we are all doing remote, but the people who are talking to the customers are the support beam for. Yes, so it does really become and there is a lot of interest in harvesting the data and bringing out the patterns and helping with the employee experience. Ravi. I think you have a thought to axonal, Ravi - Just wanted to double back on what Rachel was saying. And I wanted to see if this has been a trend going on. For some time. We're a custom. A company is measured about how much Self Service you have. Right? So, you know when a customer is evaluating your products, they also see how much knowledge is out there. So the first thing you would do is when you're evaluating the customer, this is a customer way back. When telling me this, The first thing I did is I went to Google and I typed an error and saw if I was able to find that information on my own. And so, to Rachel's Point, support is available. I think the self, the whole area of knowledge based on self help and making sure the customer is able to self help customers don't want to talk to support when they're having issues, and I'm saying that in a good way, if they're able to find it on their own. They're more than happy to find it. So the challenge for us is to be able to identify. What is the type of information that we need to provide to our customers more in a more proactive manner, whether it's to our knowledge Center or whether we are basically approaching them saying, hey, do you know you're having an issue? So that's where the most supported model is evolving. And I know that's where you guys are as well. And so that's why I'm trying to bring this up. Kay - It's interesting. That's why we call it an interaction, right? A and, , customer. Going in and looking on a website for a training or a help video or even getting an answer for a question. That's still an interaction, even though they are not talking to a hand and what can we learn from? Even that interaction to say, hey did we surface them? The right type of knowledge, if they do it the first time and when they want that information, can we give it to them? The first time? Can that new piece of knowledge? Should that piece of knowledge? Be improved? How many more customers as it served or has it not served it all goes. To that knowledge, intelligence aspect. And I really wanted to touch on the employee experience Alex, but the topic is moving towards the data aspects of, maybe we do the data aspect and then we come into the employee experience aspect. It brings back to how do you know there's a lot of discussions around understanding all of these interactions and understanding the customer sentiment. And bubbling that up. Could you Rachel, could you tie that into, how many of those can be utilized to us as business impact or severity? Rachel - not sure, I understand that Kay - you can use all of these interactions and use of the data to bring out escalations you touched on it right in bring it out. So if you can relate a couple of scenarios in which it can be utilized to bring out. They severity that, you know, they are an escalation that's going to happen and being proactive about it, right? Rachel - Yeah. I think we when we do start to see a product issue. We do have a, you know, a process that we can follow to flag it and to maybe identify other customers that might have that issue and Alice can speak specifically to that process to where we can monitor. There's a couple of fronts that can Happen. It. Usually I think as we think about as we roll out, a lot of features, we have a lot of releases and we do that in waves, if we see an issue, starting to happen to be able to get in front of that, if it's something, that's not new that starts to impact certain customers who have certain setups. So that's one way. We kind of get, get ahead of it. Yeah, in terms of that escalation. I don't know. Alex, if you want to talk little bit about what you have in place with the dev team, Kay - The advice back into the You know, the on premise was assessed to write, sort of time to Market so fast that brings out. So Alex, if you could tie that in what Rachel said and type that into the employee experience? That would be great. I'm just being mindful of the time even though we are trying to introduce all the social media links in the topics, please. Yeah, Alex - no problem. Well as Ravi said in SAS, it's much easier to remotely monitor what the customer is doing. Is leveraging your solutions for right and from a support perspective in terms of monitoring escalations. It's keeping a pulse on what sort of issues were seeing how frequently they're occurring and what types of subject matter those tickets that are coming in from these. Customers are concerned if we see a trend where a certain question is being asked more than once will surface that to our CSM because this might be an indicator that this customer was not properly in a Old or is having trouble getting the hang of our system. And we don't want that. Of course. We want to escalate that and make sure they get what they need from a wider product operation perspective. It's also keeping an eye out for critical operations that are ongoing and may be affected by issues that come up. So like, for example, our Dev team, we have monitoring alerts configured that will let us know remotely in a customer org, whenever a critical piece of functionality in our product Suite is not working as optimized or as intended and what we'll do actually to bring out an escalation. So to speak, before the customers are They are deaf. He monitors that and creates an action item for our team. The support team follows up and reaches out to the customer proactively so we can get in front of them and say, hey look, are you aware that you have this issue going on? No worries because here's how you resolve it and we'll walk them and guide them through it to a happy resolution. So I think it's a few things that tie back together, but the greater visibility and SAS is definitely a big boost in these interactions including Rachel - They just just to add a comment too. I think you know, we do have all that visibility. We also have you know, we track and look at customer health. And one of the dimensions of customer health is when they do not upgrade in SAS where they start lagging behind analysis, like, oh boy. This customer is like a couple releases behind so That's also an indicator. You want to get proactive Robbie and team working to make sure that all those do not upgrade or laggards who are hesitant or just you're too busy to, you know, kind of do that up. Grade path. I think it's another one that we kind of look at and it's a flag. I mean obviously they get too far behind in terms of all of the improvements. We made it. We know we're going to see issues. So it's one that's another use case, but Ravi - Ellis is also adding one more thing that you know as software vendors. You have to look at it from a customer's point of view. You customers are dealing with all three million vendors and I'm just saying that. And so they are getting alerts from Linda. They're getting alerts from Salesforce. They're getting me, you know, they're, you know, the themes there who are supporting all these systems and business systems, you know, they have to prioritize as well. So I think sometimes how we work with our customers, how we alert them, make sure that they're not overwhelmed, you know, we have to keep that in mind that we are not the only vendor they're dealing with and so therefore I think keeping that in mind. I always keep that in mind because you have to look at it from that perspective because I was getting bombarded by all these vendors. I'm going to prioritize, right? So something that is something that we have to keep in mind in terms of how we communicate with customers when we communicate, you know, we're just not bothering them every single time, you know, and when there's a fire, there's a fire. It's not like, oh my God, there's a fire. There's no fire at all from their perspective. It's not a fire for us. It's a fire, right? So you have to kind of be Kay - absolute. Play. Alex, what brought you know, what you mentioned is we call it the three, right? So within a customer environment, they are having a problem mr. Customer. It looks like you're having this issue. Let me help you solve the issue even before they reach out to us, right? So that's the scenario. You talked about it. It's fascinating, it brings up an interesting story. We call that forest what we were talking about, looking at the month, all the customer trees and looking At the scenario as a whole, we call that before. That's the forest and this is the trees in the tree scenario as the support leader. The other, they mentioned to me, we do the three scenarios. So well, our customers don't even know that. We are solving all these problems for them. They think we don't know, but they were charging a preemie support and they didn't know what they are getting for the Premi support selfie started, selling and sending the newsletters on what all we did behind that back. So when they were really sleeping, if you could elude, you know, actually add anything to it, it would be great to hear. Alex - Yeah. So basically the question is like what do we do Beyond those proactive measures that we discussed? I think we talked about the proactive measures from a tree perspective. Is there anything from a forest perspective? Well, I think it's kind of taking a look at each individual tree as It kind of grows and Sprouts, you know, you have to analyze what exactly the subject matter is of that. Are you seeing a lot of trees centered around product knowledge gaps? Like, is it around training? Or are you seeing a lot of trees around user areas and misconfigurations in the product? Something that maybe the customer is not fully comfortable yet. It's taking all of those, I guess, individual trees and grouping them together to really see what Composition of your Forest is to get a better understanding of how to approach. It had a garden, and it maintained it. You have to really understand the specific requests and the type of request coming up. So you can best formulate a strategy to address those concisely and precisely for our customers. It makes a customer support role itself, you know, a role where you're carrying the ball. All and you're going above EQ and beyond, and there is lot of along with IQ skills, and it's, you know, it's one of the reasons we're actually seeing some teachers moving into serious roles and they are extremely successful Because of that, what kind of training do you offer for people to deal with very difficult conversations and difficult scenarios? Alex - Yeah, so It's a few things first and foremost, the training that we offer to our support agents to get comfortable with that. Is D, escalation tactics, right? Like Rachel said, earlier, its software things are going to happen. Things are going to blow up eventually, right, but you have to be ready for when that does happen. And when a customer is upset and frustrated with an issue that they gauge is severe and critical, even if that's not the actual understanding from the support team in terms of product knowledge, Maybe it's not that severe in terms of how to fix it. But it feels like a major issue to the customer. You have to be ready to empathize with their needs, understand their needs, but also be able to address them in a way where you understand their concern but still move them forward. Saudi escalation tactics are really important to us. If there's a customer that's frustrated inventing to you, you have to be able to have the Savvy to say listen. I understand your frustration and I'm here to help. Here's what we're going to do, too. You resolved, right? Saudi escalation tactics first and foremost. Secondly, it's triage skills, right? So you have to make sure that your employees for troubleshooting are fully well versed on how to troubleshoot the product, and how to look into specific pieces of features. At the same time. They have to also be aware of when the threshold is to escalate an issue to the dev team or the product team to get further assistance on it. So training towards the escalation tactics and triage skills and you know in tandem critical thinking skills to determine when it's time to move it to the next level are our three most important things. One other thing that I will say is important in training is getting the motion down where a support agent can gather as much information about the issue as possible. Prior to jumping on a call with a customer. Right? You never want to jump on a call with a customer half-cocked or half prepared. That is not going to be a good customer experience and they will see that you know, they're going to see that you're not ready for this, right? You have to be sure that your agents know how to collect the necessary data to at least initially triage or understand the issue context, prior to engaging with a further conversation with the customer. So those really those four things are the Most important things we train on, Kay - makes a lot of sense that the data can help with respect to Bringing out the right or, You know, technology can help with bringing in the right set of data. Nber one, nber two is we focus a lot about the root cause category because like you said, if I assign our triage it in a wrong place than a wrong person at the wrong skill, set is working on the problem and until they identify, it's not their area, and then you're moving. on to the next person and the next person so that level of looking into where is the core root cause category, we actually go to the subgroup cost to but root cause category is very critical and then so if the technology can help with that, then the support agent can actually work in empathizing with the customer bringing out the critical thinking and the problem solving ability that is required is . Robbie do You think the same thing is true with a see if it's a serious organization where they are balancing the answering the question, along with net revenue. Ravi - First of all, I totally believe in transparent communication with customers. You have to let the customers know what the truth is, right? That's not hiding behind the trees. If I may call it that way, you have to kind of go out. If it's bad news. Tell them the bad news, if it's good. Obviously, you want to call them, but if it's, you know, transparency is very key. So, going back to what Alex was saying, it applies Cs and general customer communication. When you're talking about, I mean, CS is more of a proactive support site, if you will. And, you know, Alex, unfortunately, sometimes is more reactive than proactive just because of the nature of the issue, right? But at the end of the day, customers need to know. We have to be transparent with the customers. The other thing that is very critical is it's a white box approach. Which means the customer needs to know customers. Sometimes they are not worried about or don't get annoyed by the ladle resolution, but they get annoyed because they don't know how you're resolving the issue. Now, the typical answer is I'm working on it. This is typical support of the people in the audience who have been in support. You will know what I'm saying. When I say I'm working on it and the customer gets very annoyed, right? Because like what are you working on? Because I have no idea what you're doing, right? And so coming out and telling them exactly. Atlee how we're going to approach the issue, but the investigation is they want to know the root cause now and sometimes you're not able to find the root cause, right? I'll give you an example from way back when in my previous experience. It was a Black Friday. There was a retailer called me at 5 p.m. On a Thursday Thanksgiving. And basically, I got on a call, there were 30 people on the call and they basically said, hey, we can do Black Friday sales tomorrow. If you can't solve this issue. It was their issue and we left after a couple of hours. I had to basically tell him I said, look, here's the work around. If you want to go operational tomorrow at 5:00 p.m. 5:00 a.m. In the morning. This is the work around. We're not going to be able to solve the root cause because the root cause is actually very, very deep and you're not going to be able to solve it. So, let's pick our battle here, right? And fortunately, they heard me. And, you know, we were able to move forward. So the point I'm trying to make is that level of transparency. And once I feel like, once they know how we're going to solve the issue. They will partner with you because now they are part of the solution, right? They'll work with us. But if you just keep asking them, one question after another then like, okay, where are you leading to this? Right? What are you doing? Right? So that's the key. So going back to answer your question. Yes, it's applies to CS as well and specifically when you're having at risk customers, you're handling at risk. Customers or your, you know, customers are not happy about a certain feature that they expected things like that. This happens in CS v as well, and it happens as well, but the key thing is just transparency. I think honest and transparent communication always works. Kay - I love it because what I'm seeing is the Synergy between customer support and customer success just in the two answers. So Alex brought up needing to have the problem solving skills and you're bringing up the need to even explain the problem solving skills. Instead of just saying it's and being transparent about it, love that. We are. I just got a note from the teams. We are six minutes in and there is a question that keeps bubbling up in social media. I wanted to bring that up and start to wind down. Rachel. This is for you. How do I ensure my organization is adequately recognized as bad? Brandon the case that I didn't hear and Advocates Advocates, how do you recognize the poor? Advocacy, attractors, brand Advocates? Maybe this poor detractors, or maybe it is positive. I tried to attract. Sighs. I don't know. Maybe take in both. Rachel - Yeah, so I from a lean data perspective. Well first, I will start off by I think that as we get more digital as we get smarter than able to serve up answers digitally and believe me. No one wants to have to get on and make a phone call or talk to a support person if they don't have to. I think we have a huge opportunity to actually create raving fans with our support. actions because the Han by the time they get to a han these days, it's rarer and rarer. So if you do have the opportunity to work with somebody, even if that is a huge escalation, it's an opportunity to build a relationship to be there for them. And to nurture those raving fans. I think where we get the tractors is where we miss when we really should be in there, when it is a huge problem for the client and that from their perspective, right? As Robbie said, really thinking about And really coming in and rallying. As you were talking earlier, it reminded me. I worked at Cisco for many years and we had some of the top companies in the world that, you know, their whole business, relied on Cisco. Like Robbie was saying in his example, we had a Black Ops Team in support who would fly in within hours to get to that customer site to Rally to fix problems, and they were called the network. And they would descend on that customer there. Be like 25 people to fix the problem for the likes of these big, you know, Fortune, 50 companies, but those are opportunities. Yes. We had a crisis. I mean, you know, imagine the New York Stock Exchange ran on Cisco, you know, like the gravity of the situation, if it were, if the network goes down but that kind of rally of support and being there, just creates an advocacy and a sort of, you know, the customer. Up, that is far beyond anything, you can deliver elsewhere. So I say think about your support team. It's an opportunity to create raving fans and Advocates by being there with them when they need you most. Kay - Yeah, thank you. Thank you. I always loved three minutes. We have to stop the conversation, but I'm thinking, oh my gosh, we have so much more to cover in this conversation is really amazing. That's a wonderful way to do an event like this. It's awesome. Thank you. Thanks, Alex. Thanks, Ravi. Thanks Rachel for your insight into it. I know us in those hiring and I know Linda is hiring. So, post your links for customer support, customer success leadership, roles, and I think it will be wonderful. When we talk about difficult scenarios and difficult conversations. This happened 25 years ago. So I can actually say that we had the largest data center from my son. Microsystems was right in Palo Alto and it was running everything from Marilyn Salomon Smith, Barney, a lot of those companies. Yeah. So a lot of that data and the data center guy walks in, I was actually in the data center for whatever reason, the data center guy got oxen and there is this red thing that says it's closed. Do not open. He opened it and he switched off the entire data center. And I still remember he sat down right there. He realized the mistake and he was sobbing and crying. We came out of that beautifully because the big rally behind just like how you are rallying behind, that's covid and everything. So we do get into some avoidable, some unavoidable scenarios with customers. It's a matter of how well we manage and as a matter of how we will come out of it and still keep the relationship strong? , so thank you guys for your input. Thank you for your Insight. Anything last minute before we switch off the light, but stay on the skull. Anything else. Thank you guys. Thank you for having us today. K a good discussion. Thank you for having us. Absolutely absolutely can.

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